The Minister for External Affairs,
The Minister for Industry and Commerce,
The Minister for Finance.
In accordance with arrangements previously made, we proceeded to Paris, as
instructed, and reopened negotiations with the French Government on the
16th June, 1930, in the Offices of the French Ministry of Commerce. His
Excellency Count O'Kelly, Mr. R.C. Ferguson (representing the Minister for
Industry and Commerce, and Messrs. P. Hughes and T. Cleary (representing
the Minister for Finance), were in attendance. Monsieur Elbel (representing
the French Ministry of Commerce) presided and Monsieur Loyriac of that
Department acted as Deputy President. Messieurs Alphand, Coulandre and
Arnal represented the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Monsieur Pourriau
and Monsieur Leroy represented the Department of Agriculture. There were also present, at various times during the negotiations, representatives of the
Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Marine and the Ministry for the Colonies.
Monsieur Alphand, the newly appointed French Minister for Ireland, was
present throughout the entire negotiations in which he took an active and
helpful part.
An opening statement was made by M. Elbel which recapitulated briefly
the history of negotiations during recent years between the two
Governments, ending in the exchange of notes which took place in January
1930. M. Elbel stated that in the opinion of himself and his colleagues this
exchange of notes had brought an end to the misunderstanding which
had arisen between the two Governments in this particular matter of a commercial
treaty. He pointed out that since the establishment of the Government
of An Saorstát the French Government had continued, in a spirit of the most
complete friendship, the benefits of the minimum tariff on all Saorstát products
entering France, notwithstanding the heavy duties which operated in
regard to wines entering An Saorstát and which affected French wines very
adversely. He felt obliged to refer to the considerable increase which had
been made in these duties at the moment when previous negotiations on the
treaty were actually proceeding between the two Governments.
M. Elbel stressed the fact that wine producers in France had become, in
recent years, increasingly conscious of the effects of heavy wine duties in
other countries, and scanned carefully the tariff list of every country with the
object of assuring themselves that French wines received what was, in their
opinion, favourable treatment. If any country imposed heavy taxation on
imported wines the French wine producers immediately proceeded to
exercise pressure on their Government to have the burden removed in regard
to their products. It was this situation which made the position of the French
Government difficult in continuing to afford Saorstát products, on entry into
France, minimum tariff treatment, and the French Government, in continuing
this policy, had been moved by feelings of friendship for the Irish people
and by the hope that, at a point some adjustment would be made which
would soothe French wine producers.
Monsieur Elbel went on to say that his Government recognised that the
Government of An Saorstát had carried out fully its undertakings made in
the month of January 1930 in regard to a modification in the rates of duty on
imported wines, and for that reason he thought the negotiations were being
resumed under happy auspices. He added that, on their part, they resumed
the proceedings with a desire to do everything practicable to arrive without
delay at an arrangement which would be of mutual advantage. At the same
time he thought it necessary to remind the Saorstát Delegation that every
draft treaty laid before the Chamber of Deputies was carefully scanned by
many interested groups, and the Government had to be in a position to justify
itself before Parliament. It was not the policy of the French Government
to grant minimum tariff terms to many countries and he stated, for our information,
that few countries enjoyed absolute minimum tariff treatment, and
those few enjoyed it only in return for special concessions on matters in
which France was interested. The French Government was prepared to grant general most-favoured nation treatment, which involved the grant of minimum
tariff terms to Saorstát products, and this it did willingly, not only in
consideration of the modification of the Saorstát duties on wine, which had
been recently made, but because of the old friendship which had continued
for centuries between the French and Irish peoples.
In making a treaty, which it was hoped would regulate the relations
between the two countries for many years, it was necessary to include
detailed articles on the various points of mutual interest which might arise in
the course of trade. Some of these points, although of secondary importance
to the grant of mutual most-favoured-nation treatment, were none the less of
primary importance for France and perhaps for Saorstát Éireann, and if he,
as President of the French Delegation, pressed for the inclusion of certain
points which might not be completely acceptable to the Saorstát delegation,
he did so because, above all, he did not wish to have a draft treaty laid before
the Chamber of Deputies which would run any chance of being rejected by
that body. Certain points (and he mentioned in particular the question of 'appellations d'origine') were considered of importance by trading interests
in France, and the absence of any provision dealing with these matters would
lead to criticism which could not be easily met by Ministers. At the same time
he assured the Saorstát delegation that he and his colleagues, within the
limits of their authority and power, would endeavour to meet whatever
difficulties were encountered by the Saorstát delegation.
His Excellency, Count O'Kelly, replied in general terms to M. Elbel's statement
and expressed the feelings of goodwill and friendship which animated
the Saorstát Government in endeavouring to meet the wishes of the French
Government. He stated that the reduction in the Saorstát rates of duty on
wines had not been altogether an easy or popular task for the Saorstát
Minister for Finance, and he asked that the concession should be regarded as
final proof of the desire of the Saorstát Government to come to a friendly
understanding. It was in an atmosphere of perfect goodwill that the negotiations
now opened and he hoped that the result would be a treaty which
would be regarded as satisfactory by the executive and legislative authorities
of both countries.
At this stage the Saorstát representatives stated that they were not
plenipotentiaries but were sufficiently conversant with the views of their
Government to be able to express an opinion as to what was likely to prove
acceptable, and to say whether they were in a position to recommend certain
texts as the discussions proceeded. Everything that they did at this
Conference was, however, subject to the sanction of their Government on
consideration of the final text reached.
The French delegation stated that they were in the same position and that,
therefore, the proceedings would take place subject to the subsequent
approval of both Governments.
A general discussion as to procedure followed when the French delegation
said that they had prepared a text which contained their ideas as to the form
and contents of the treaty. If there were no objection this could form the basis
of discussion.
A copy of the draft text presented to the Saorstát delegation is attached to
this report.2 There is also attached a copy of the text which emerged as a
result of the discussions.3 This latter draft, in the view of the undersigned, is
not, except in a few respects which will be noted later, different from what
the undersigned understand to be the wishes of the Executive Council of
Saorstát Éireann as expressed in the treaties already negotiated and in
Departmental minutes on treaty matters. Accordingly, the undersigned recommend
that the text be approved generally by the Government.
At this point it should be stated that at an early stage in the proceedings
the question of reaching an agreement on the question of fisheries was raised.
The French delegation said that the arrest of French fishermen off the coast
of Ireland was rousing a certain amount of feeling in parts of France, particularly
in Brittany, and that, in the opinion of the delegation, it would be necessary
to discuss this question and endeavour to arrive at some settlement
which would avoid a situation arising which might jeopardize good relations
between the two countries.
The Saorstát delegation stated that they had instructions to negotiate a
trade treaty but were not empowered to discuss the question of fisheries qua
fisheries apart from the subject as a matter of international trade. The former
was a matter altogether apart and would have to be dealt with at another time
and in another way. The question of fishery limits had been the subject of certain
International Conferences, and the position of the Saorstát Government
had been made clear at these Conferences. The Saorstát representatives were
not empowered to deal with fisheries apart from international trade in fish,
and would ask, therefore, that this matter be taken up with the Government
of An Saorstát at another time if it were found necessary.
The French delegation expressed appreciation of the statement made and
added that they did not wish to interfere with the negotiations proceeding at
the moment, but, at the same time, they could not close their eyes to the fact
that failure to come to some arrangement on this question might jeopardize
the acceptance of any draft treaty by the Chamber of Deputies.
At a later stage the question was reopened by Monsieur Alphand and the
report on that part of the proceedings will be found later in this document.
[matter omitted]